Since most of us that are here are restoring old, stripped guitars,
most of us here will end up
having to apply a decal to our project. There isn't a huge supply of
correct labels out there, and
when we are paying as much as $50 or more for a decal, we have no room
for error. Here are
some tips:
Use a decal setting agent (a drop of white glue in the solvent isn't
a bad idea either). This
product is made for improving the results of decal application, so
the few dollars a bottle costs
is a worthy investment. If you happen to have a NOS real Fender Meyercord
Type "C" transfer (it will say this on the back of the decal paper), I
would suggest having someone who knows how to handle these to apply it.
These require a special solvent (butyl cellosolve and water mix) to be
placed correctly before finished over.
Apply the decal AFTER you are done assembling all the parts to the
neck. A slip of the
screwdriver off of the string tree, or slip of the clamp or hammer
when installing the tuner
bushings can "relic" your decal. Contributed by Jim Shine, 11/17/00
I would not suggest heating it up. I strongly suggest getting some decal
set. It is available
from hobby shops that supply model builders. This solvent helps soften
the backing and
prevents cracking. It also improves adhesion. A good brand is "Microscale"
brand "Micro Set".
DO NOT get the "Micro Sol", that stuff melts the decal over irregular
surfaces. You can get
there stuff from a number of places online. Try Hobby heaven. Contributed
by Jim Shine, 11/18/00
I recently bought a "make your own" decal kit on ebay for about
$25 bucks. Basically, you put the paper in
your inkjet printer and you can print out anything you want. The guy
I bought it from, Willie, is really cool and I
have bought tons of stuff from him. His email address is mgkdragn@accessus.net
and you might want to
contact him about getting one.
: : hey i just want to know how to remove my old headstock logo (it is getting a bit worn, and is not inlayed, just paint or something on) anyway, how would i go above removing it, and how would i put a new one on there? any help is appreciated, thanks alot,
: You can probably lightly sand it off with about #600 wet. Use a block and be careful you don't sand over the edge and get a sand through. BTW, What is the logo?
The Xylene I always end up talking about does a great job of removing decals and not harming the finish.
Bill, Instead of trying to explain everything in this forum, I created a web page that details each of the steps. You can capture this page and do what you wish to it so the information doesn't get lost in this message board.
John Brzys (GOOD INFO HERE; Bill)
I have Paint Shop Pro 6 in my computer, and I have done some great stuff
with it. As an example outside of the decal realm, I needed an old Gretsch
label (the kind inside the guitar). The back of the Country Gentleman was
trashed, and the label was partially destroyed. I trimmed the wood to the
remnants of the label and scanned it with my scanner. I then clone brushed
various mirrored and turned images to restore the boarder. Because I don't
care for the fine printing of my particular printer, I saved it on disk
and broght it to a local printer and had it lazer copied on crack and peel
sticker material. It looked absolutely flawless!
The materials you will need are:
Decal
Bowl of warm water
Small, hobby paintbrush
lint free cloth
Elmers white glue
Begin application by cleaning the face of the headstock with a wax free polish, or just a damp cloth. Allow surface to dry. Fill a small-medium sized bowl with warm water and add in a small amount of white glue, and mix the glue into the water until the water is foggy. Using the hobby brush, apply some of the solution onto the headstock in the area where the decal will reside. Sumberge the decal into the bowl of water/white glue for 15 seconds, then remove. Lightly slide the decal off the paper onto the headstock. Using the lint free cloth, gently, and lightly wipe the excess solution off holding one finger on one end, rubbing the cloth across to the opposite side. Do not try to remove all of the solution, just try and make the decal flat and void of air bubbles. Allow the decal to dry for a minimum of 24 hours, then clean residue off headstock face with your favorite polish.
Here are some tips:
Use a decal setting agent (a drop of white glue in the solvent isn't
a bad idea either). This
product is made for improving the results of decal application, so
the few dollars a bottle costs
is a worthy investment. If you happen to have a NOS real Fender Meyercord
Type "C" transfer (it will say this on the back of the decal paper), I
would suggest having someone who knows how to handle these to apply it.
These require a special solvent (butyl cellosolve and water mix) to be
placed correctly before finished over.
Apply the decal AFTER you are done assembling all the parts to the
neck. A slip of the
screwdriver off of the string tree, or slip of the clamp or hammer
when installing the tuner
bushings can "relic" your decal. I would not heating the decal up.
I strongly suggest getting some decal set. It is available
from hobby shops that supply model builders. This solvent helps soften
the backing and
prevents cracking. It also improves adhesion. A good brand is "Microscale"
brand "Micro Set".
DO NOT get the "Micro Sol", that stuff melts the decal over irregular
surfaces. You can get
there stuff from a number of places online. Try Hobby heaven.
I can't say I've heard of this before <grain discoloration>. This
particular dye is a single component (not a mix of different colors) and
typically when this happens (a different color appears) it's a solvency
issue. If the different color follows figure or patterns in the wood, it
could be that the dye "preferred" these areas and may have kicked slightly
out of solution. I suspect a possible link between residual bleaching chemicals
on the wood or in the figure pockets. After using a two part bleach and
always if you apply more than one application,
neutralization is advised by applying white vinegar. (the A component
is usually 30% sodium or
potassium hydroxide). Resistance of the above mentioned dye <blue
alcohol> to alkali is generally good, though testing was done with a weaker
sodium hydroxide solution. If this remains a problem, then the best thing
to do would be to spray the dye in a binder over a seal coat. I'd recommend
vinyl sealer. Though I'm sorry you had troubles, this experience remains
somewhat of lesson in that you should always run your finishing schedule
through on samples.
"Practice on samples or you'll be experimenting on your project" Contributed by Jeff Jewitt 11/18/00
Some colors when mixed and applied take to the grain and/or field of
the wood differently. Blue and red can
make purple but when applied you may find the grain may dye royal blue
and the field maroon
I remember someone posting detailed instructions on this back at the
FDP or TDPRI a few different times.
I'm bored and thinking about doing an aged lacquer on my RI tweed case.
How do I do it?
>The choice for "lacquering" tweed amps is Zinsser Bullseye Orange Shellac
brushed on although just today
someone told me that it is available in an aerosol spray can. My question
is how do you clean the tweed before
applying the shellac? Perhaps you could clean it with spray on carpet
cleaner and vacuum (did I just misspell
vacuum or is this the only word in the English language with double
"u"s?). I'm not sure about the cleaning but
pretty confident on the Zinsser.
>Bill, you might consider putting together a tweed aging kit, or a shellacking
kit of some sort. I have seen the
spray shellac but not tried it yet.
>Here's the "formula" as discussed on the old TDP, and field tested
by Bill Hullett: Orange (amber) shellac cut 50/50 (or so) with denatured
alcohol solvent, applied with a bristle brush. Multiple coats to achieve
the color, and even out splotchiness. Satin lacquer topcoat if desired
for protection from alcohol and moisture, and/or to reduce sheen. Brushing
splotches could be reduced by spraying, but look fine and authentic. Practice
on scrap first... Good china bristle brushes used to be very expensive,
now you can find them cheap at the stores that carry Chinese made tools.
Contributed
by Alan P. 12/2/00
I am sure a few of you have a neck, or will have a neck from this era
that needs to be refinished. If you are
looking to do a realistic job, you must first know the "secrets" that
hide in finish of these necks.
Even though Fender switched over to Polyester between 67 and 68, they
didn't switch on the face of the
headstocks until 1981. The reason? Fender experienced compatibility
problems with the new Type "C"
transfers (decals) and the clear Poly coat. This is obvious on guitars
that didn't get much sunlight and were
exposed to large amounts of cigarette smoke. The face and upper side
of the headstock amber while many
times the poly areas stay white, or lighter amber. I can hear the question
"But Jim, if this is true, why are many of
these necks evenly discolored?" Well, most all times there is a slight
difference in the shades, but not enough to
"jump out" at you. Also, the poly necks will amber significantly with
lots of UV exposure. I have stripped original
finish off these necks and didn't have to stain them because the color
was in the wood. not the lacquer.
To get the accurate look, amber the face of the headstock with a small
amount overspraying on the tuner edge
of the headstock. Then, do the rest of the neck a lighter amber, or
don't color it at all. If you want a new looking
neck, simply don't amber any of the neck. HAVE FUN!!! Yellow
Pegheads Contributed by Jim Shine 11/17/00
Bill and I have been E-Mailing each other the last couple weeks about
my efforts to produce an authentic
looking "aged" black bakelite Tele guard. If you read the TDPR you
may have seen my posts as the process evolved over the last couple weeks.
Bill requested I post the process on this board when I finally got it down
pat.
Here is the ingredients:
One stripped down to bare bakelite Tele guard. I recommend a new style
Fender 52' Reissue guard. About
$20-$30 depending on how bad your local Fender dealer rips you on these.
One aerosol can of clear tinted nitro lacquer from Guitar ReRanch. You
must use nitro and it helped s that it's
tinted because old Tele guards lacquer has tinted with age. Nitro is
what Fender used in the 50's on the
originals. About $24 including shipping
One bottle of a polishing compound called 3M Fine Cut. I bought mine
at Walmart, it's in a six inch tall, black
flat-sided bottle in the automotive section by the other polishing
products. About $6
#600, #1000 and #1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper from an automotive store
That's it.
First you need to sand down the Fender guard to bare bakelite. This
is the hardest part of the job and is no fun.
Fender has finished these with a real thick coat of polyester that
paint remover will not touch believe me. You
have to start wet sanding with #600 to get through this stuff, then
go to #1000, and then #1500 to really get the
guard smooth once all the poly ids off. To get the guard to look right
you cannot just start with a Fender finished guard as the poly will not
look right when you put the wear marks on.
Spray the bare bakelite guard with either two very light coats of the
tinted lacquer or one light coat of lacquer.
The thinner the lacquer the more authentic the wear will look when
you are done!! Do not overdo the finish. It will
look a little bumpy but that's ok a polishing will smooth it out later.
You have to remember that the wear on an old Tele guard is on lacquer that
has been worn down and thinned out to next to nothing after nearly 50 years.
if you want it to look like that you have to use a very thin coat of lacquer
on your guard to start with.
You can start to put the main wear mark which will go below the strings
on about 30-40 minutes after you spray
the guard. The lacquer should be hard enough to handle at this point
if you are putting it on lightly. Do not let it
sit over night or the finish starts to get too hard for the 3M Fine
cut to be effective. You need to use the 3M to make the wear mark because
it cuts through the finish slowly so you can easily control the size and
shape of the wear mark. It helps if you have some books with pictures of
old Teles that show the wear mark so you have an idea of the different
types of marks they got. There were three basic shapes.
You put the wear mark on with one finger and a cotton cloth that you
dip the tip of your finger in the 3M Fine Cut.
I found it easiest to turn the guard sideways (neck pocket facing away
for you) and starting out with an oval
shaped movement of my finger. It will take 45 seconds to 1 minute or
more to get the wear mark started. Once it gets started you just keep working
with the size and shape till you get it what you want.
The wear mark needs to have a flat edge on the top of the mark that
is a little below the high E string. You can
actually run your finger in a straight line back and forth along this
line to get it even. It helps if you use a piece of
masking tape put on very lightly or a rubber band over the guard to
help give you a general idea of where the
straight edge is when you have the guard off the guitar. You will want
to keep putting the guard back on and off
the Tele anyway to see where you are at and how the wear mark in general
looks when it is on the guitar as you
work on making the mark. Also keep wiping the 3M off frequently so
you can clearly see the what the wear mark looks like. If you do this and
use 3M and one finger you really can be very accurate in the shape and
size and where the mark is going!!
What is great about the overall wear mark you will get is that the area
where the wear mark meets the lacquer
on the guard will be a little jagged or rough, not the distinct razor
sharp line that looks so phony on the Fender
Relic guards. You want the edge to look like this as the wear on the
original guards represents little chips in the
lacquer made by pick.
If you get a mark you don't like, and it took me some practice to get
everything looking right, you just take some
paint remover and put it on the guard and strip the nitro off. Takes
about two minutes. Clean the guard off really well and start all over with
a clean slate so to speak. The can of nitro will do probably do about 25
resprays, but you won't need to do it over that many times before you can
get something you will like a lot!!
What you also need to do is add subtle wear around the edge of the guard
as old ones have. A little wear on
each corner of the guard, on the arched top edge of the pickgurad,
along the flat edge in the bridge pickup
cutout, where the truss rod adjusting screw is, in the circular area
for the control plate, looks great too. Very
authentic. I'm talking about very small amounts of wear now, just the
edges. It also looks great to put a small amount on the front edge of the
lower horn of the guard. Man, that looks really "right"
Once you have all the wear marks you want on the guard. Go over the
whole guard with 3M Fine Cut to polish
the nitro finish. It will not make it too glossy, but add just a little
shine to it and polish the finish on the guard
smooth. Don't go nuts here, just use circular motions going over the
whole surface. Do not do this for any length of time or you will start
to go through the finish because if you did the finish right it will be
really thin! Just rub over the whole thing once. Clean the 3M off with
a clean rag.
The final fishing touch is to rub your finger along the side of your
nose and keep rubbing the wear mark you put
below the strings until it is a uniform black color. The normal color
of the bare bakelite is just a little too dark
black/grey and not black enough to look EXACTLY right. Your face oil
will stain the wear spot enough to make it
look perfect. Exactly the color of the wear mark on an old Tele guard.
There you go!! Do it right and you can make a guard that looks very, very authentic. Contributed by Jim Barth, 12/17/00
If you have a Wal Mart nearby, they have a nice compound in the auto
section called "3M Fine cut". That stuff is
great when doing the first polish after wet sanding with 2000 grit.
I have actually been able to use that one
polish from 2000 to final! If you want a cool looking ring on the back
of the pickguard, place a CD on the back
(label side up) with a piece of tape covering the center hole, then
mist on a light overspray. Wait a few minutes,
and remove the CD. Your CD will still work even!
Hey,
: does anyone have any tips for giving new white plastic parts (pickguard,
tuning machine buttons, pickup
covers) a nice slightly yellow aged look?
: Thanks,
: Daniel.
Coffee works good on genuine Fender replacement parts. Otherwise, it
may or may not work. Some plastics
made today just don't yellow. I guess you could tint those parts with
a tinted laquer.
: : Here's a wild one. Somebody a couple months ago on one of
the boards claimed putting plastic parts in a
bucket and then lighting and poutting an incense stick(s) in and covering
with a towel yellowed uo the parts in a
few hours
: : : I have not tried this though.
: I've got a couple of spare white vol/tone knobs. I'm gonna give it
a try. Now, should I use Sandalwood or Nag
Champa?
: I'll post the results later,
Ok, I put the knobs and the tip of a tremolo bar in a metal pot covered
with a towel with 7 incense sticks and a
couple of cigarettes for some extra smoke. I let them go for about
5 hours. When I took them out there was
yellowing alright, until I touched them and the color wiped right off.
So I'm thinking either it doesn't work, it's
gonna take a lot more than a few hours, or the residue need to stay
on the parts for a long time without being
wiped off. I'm trying tea and coffee right now. I'll give them a couple
of days and report back.
: New plastic parts will probably be coated with a mold release compound
which may block the yellowing. My
guess is that you can clean it off with naphtha. I would wipe the back
of the knob skirt (so as not to mess up the
knob if it doesn't work) with naphata and try again.
.......DO YOU REMEMBER YOUR M0M WITH RITZ DYE? RITZ#1 YELLOW LIQUID
AND DRY TAUPE. MIX
TO A TOBACCO STAIN ON UNCLE BUCK'S CEILING.ON 50% STRENGTH IN THE NUKE(MICROWAVE),
COOK FOR OR START AT 30 SECONDS. VARY ON THIS AND YOU CAN GET THAT
GREEN G/B/W
OTHERS PAY GOOD FOR. OKAY, KNOBS. TAKE SOME 320 GRIT AND ROUND THE
EDGES OF THE
KNOBS TO THE POINT OF 30 YEARS, AND DO THE SAME. OH, MAKE SURE THE
SOLUTION COVERS
THE ITEMS. START OFF EASY. PLASTIC MELTS REAL EASY.
Just though someone might be interested in the way I recently relic'd
some kluson replacement tuner buttons. I
took a small dab of the cement used to apply binding (the stuff used
to weld arcylic would work too) and applied
it to the edges and surface of the buttons. It eats the plastic, so
wipe it off quickly once you have the desired
amount of desolve. I then soak 'em in tea/coffee/espresso..whatever.
The softer disolved spots tend to stain
easier and it creates a nice discoloration very similar to the original
buttons. When finished, the tuners look like
the've started to disolve from age.
I love the look of old guitars, and the relic series, I've tried
a couple and they've looked pretty good, but I've
always started with a painted body. Now I have an ash tele body that
I stripped and I'm wanting to relic it. Has
anybody had any luck doing this? This is how I want it to look:
: Thanks Bill, and everyone else!
: Jason
Jason,
I think the hardest thing to duplicate in relicing guitars is the fingerboard
wear. I peronaly have never seen a
"relic" (Fender or otherwise) that had the correct shape and color
for the finger wear marks. Scott Lenz several years ago in a conversation
I had with him on this issue suggested a very thin coat on the fingerboard
that would wear through very quickly as the best option for authentic wear.
Jim
I had good results getting very find spiderweb type weatherchecking
on a finish that's about a year old. I took a
hair dryer to the spot I wanted to check and warmed it (DON'T bake
it, just keep the dryer on there long enough
to make the paint warm to the touch). Then blast the area very close-up
with circuit chiller so that a ream of frost
appears on the paint. Let the frost gradually melt then wipe down with
a soft cloth.
When I did this, you could literally hear crackling. The checking is
very fine and does not break the paint - it
looks more like ridges beneath the surface.
This was on finish that was nitro over Dupont Lucite (acrylic lacquer).
I don't know how well this will work with a
Fender vintage reissue (these have poly undercoats), and it definitely
will not work on poly.
This is pure conjecture, but I think the longer the finish has to cure,
the better. A brand new finish is still relatively
soft and elastic, so it will "heal" itself as it expands and contracts.
As far as plastic parts goes - coffee will only work on pickup covers
right out of the box. Knobs, guards,
backplates all need to be "scuffed up" a little before relic'ing/staining
will "take." Itchy
I agree with Scott Lentz on keeping the finish thin so it wears out
on its own. The dirty wood look is very hard to
recreate, so just wear the paint to wood by either buffing through
the finish, or by polishing through with fine
sand paper. Then allow your own dirt to get in there. As far as checking
goes, that is the easiest part, but most
often fake looking part if not done right. I do not suggest using propellant
to force it to crack. The spider web/
Desert ground pattern simply looks fake. What you do is, allow your
guitar body to cure. Do the whole paint
process as usual. Assemble the guitar and play it for a month atleast.
Then, remove the neck and stick it in the
freezer (or put it outside wrapped up in a blanket if you live in a
cold region of the country)overnight. Leave all
the metal parts on it. The cracks will originate from screws and metal
areas and will form a checking "pattern".
Once you have started the checking, more will happen naturally, but
you can put it out every couple of nights to
add more. Checking on old guitars generally have a pattern. Fenders
tend to check from side to side. Don't be
alarmed if cracks disappear as the guitar warms up, they are still
there and will reappear eventually. Be aware
that one the paint is cracked, its cracked forever (unless you refinish
it), so think of it as a tattoo. Once its there,
you are pretty much stuck with it, so be sure its something you want.
Wear marks can be started on the fretboard by taking a Dremel tool
with a buffing wheel bit. Turn on the tool to
the fastest setting and place the wheel where you want the mark. Press
light if you want a small oval mark, and
add pressure to make it longer. This method will actually wear through
the paint, so be careful and remember,
its forever (almost). Jim
Does anyone know how to make lacquer finish crack on the surface? I'm
trying to age the headstock on my
Les Paul copy.
Answer: Although it's true that nitro finishes crack and craze more
readily than poly or urethane finishes (that's
why the auto industry disconinued using it in favor of the newer developing
finishes in the early 20's) Poly strats
can be distressed to crack. Using a hair dryer or preferrably a heat
gun (use some sense here) warm a small
area and then (with gloves on) lay on some dry ice (it's wicked actually
hearing the cracking). The fine patterned
cracking isn't gonna be there like with a nitro finish, but it will
crack and can be made to look like it's been
abused. A lot of us working on guitars professionally recommend putting
a nitro finish on first then distressing
it... the above works well on nitro finishes... you can localized the
checking etc. I haven't used this technique on
any of the acrylic urethane guitars I've finished... just on nitro
and poly.... the acrylic urethane though more
workable and buffable than poly is also a lot more tenacious... have
fun... Thom
First, about how old is the guitar? Fender has been applying the finish
on the thick side, age can assist us here.
Toning down the color I have not tried, the new finishes don't age
like the originals and I don't think you can get
the ligher color without a refinish. The best way to check the finish,(not
completely accurate to real aging) is to
heat the body with a hair dryer, then spray the finish with a compound
called 'freeze spray'. Freeze spray will be
available from an electronics supply house, It is used to find bad
solder joints on p.c. boards. WARNING
WARNING THIS PROCESS WILL RESULT IN A DRASTIC CHANGE IN TEMPERATURE
WHICH WILL PUT
YOUR GUITARS FINISH TO THE TEST. You will not know what or where the
finish will crack. If your are not
sure that you are willing to accept the results, don't try it. As for
aging metal, remove all parts that you want to
age. Drop the brass saddles in a mixture of heavy salt and water. The
other parts are more difficult. I use
muratic acid, available from a store that sells pool supplies. Prepare
a container that can be sealed shut, place
a rag or cloth at the bottom, and pour a small amount of the acid on
the cloth. THIS ACID IS CAUSTIC, BE
CAREFUL NOT TO GET ANY ON YOU! Do not apply any directly to the metal
parts, the fumes will work out
the process. After a short time, @ 1-2 hours remove the parts, wash
them in water and place them in the salt
solution with the saddles. If you plan to age the tuners as well, be
very careful. Oil them before attempting the
acid, and don't wash them in water or the salt. They will have to be
cleaned by hand, then oiled again. I have
done several guitars this way, e mail me if you have further questions.
You might try placing the body in a freezer. Leave it over night. Remove
to a warm room the
next day. Freezing the complete body will give you a better chance
of getting the cross grain checking which is
the proper checking pattern. I've lightened amber bursts that were
too yellow by placing them in the sun. In
Texas in the summer a noticeable difference can be seen in about three
or four hours.
I did take a razor blade to a recent Tele Blonde I'm finishing. Checking across the grain is the authentic checking look. The china vase checking of the Custom shop relics is not. I first used a straight edge to keep the basic checking pattern at 90 deg. across the grain but had better luck free handing the lines. One problem I ran into is the pattern has to be thought out completely before the first cut is made. For example; a checking line cannot cross another line. They can intersect and even loop but not cross. Also real checking may have "steps" with two or three lines following the step. You have to plan ahead not only for the steps but for the checking lines that follow. I think a template or pattern drawn either on the body or a mylar overlay can solve the planning problem. (One concern with drawing or using an overlay is that whatever the pattern is drawn with or on will be pushed into the check by the razor). After I cut the checks they still were not very evident and felt higher than they should (real checks feel flat). I solved the height and also made them more visible by buffing with a used 3M maroon Scotch Brite pad. The pad flattened the checking crests and at the same time deposited some dark crud from who knows what into the checks making them more visible. Recognizing the problems I stripped the front and finishied again in Blonde. I may try again.
: Question: Is there an accepted method for "DIY relic'ers" to age nickel hardware? I believe I saw a recipe for a solution on this board before. Thanks for the help.
------> easy & safe if done right.....
the fumes of hydrochloric acid [sold in the hardware store as muriatic
acid...same *exact* stuff...HCl] will oxidize the nickle [irrecoverablly]
in about 3-5 minutes. pour the acid in a bucket, suspend the part[s] over
the solution, and cover......checking every minute or so. don't immerse
the parts...it's the fumes which do the work. after you've reached the
desired apearance, you should wash the parts.....and a PH neutralization
is a good idea [dishwasher soap works wonders...has a PH of about 12] usual
cavaets apply....you're working w/ acid...use gloves, glasses....don't
breathe the fumes... clean up well, hose down the area...work outdoors,
etc. i bought a '63 ES335 several years ago.....all original, except for
the shiney new [chrome! gasp] tailpiece. i got a nickel one & did this
process...you'd **NEVER** know it wasn't original. good luck; be careful!
mn
I have a fair amount of experience aging nickel parts using both muratic
acid and a liquid called Etchant Solution. As mentioned earlier muratic
acid is available from hardware stores. Etchant Solution from Radio Shack.
Both are about $4.
A saver method (but not totally safe you must use precautions)of aging
nickel parts is to put it into a solution called Etchant Solution.
The fumes are not as caustic as muratic acid and the oder is near nill.
Still, however, use rubber gloves and protect your skin and eyes.
When using either Muratic acid or Etchant Solution the part you are
doing needs to be absolutely grease free. The effect will get screwed up
if you have oil on it anywhere. Most people use naptha to clean the part
to ensure there is no oil or grease on it. Do not touch it with your bare
hands once you have cleaned it!! If you do you will be able to see your
fingerprints on the part after it is aged and there seems to be no cure
for this.For this method you actually immerse the part in the solution.
Here is the easiest way to use etchant solution. Get one plastic container
say 5" inches around. Get another plastic container let's say 4" around
that will sit inside of the larger one and is still big enough to hold
the part that you want to age.The smaller container you put inside with
the part needs to have a bunch of holes drilled into it so that the solution
will drain back into the larger container when you go to take the smaller
container with the part in it out of the bigger one. Fill the bigger container
with maybe two inches of Etchant Solution. Put the part into the smaller
conainer with holes in it and then put the smaller container with the part
into the bigger one with the Etchant Solution in it. The solution will
come in the holes. Wait three minutes and lift the smaller container out
slowly allowing the Etchant Solution to drain off the part and back into
the larger container. Wash the part off with water well. This method is
quick!! You cannot go much more than three-four minutes or it will eat
through the nickel plating. Three minutes seems about right. Muratic acid
is BAD stuff. It is very caustic and VERY smelly. I have used it and it
does work well, but you really, really have to be careful with this stuff.
I cannot over emphasize this point.
When I have used Muratic acid I have left the parts over the fumes
longer than 3 minutes. I have left them in the fumes for a couple hours
with no ill effects other than more completely dulling the shine which
is what you want. The easiest way to do muratic acid IMHO is to use a peanut
butter jar with a lid. For a tailpiece you want a piece of flexible wire
to stick through one of the string holes on the bridge. You drill a very
small hole in the lid just big enough for the wire to come thru. Adjust
the wire tied to the tailpiece so it hangs about 2 inches off the bottom
of the peanut butter jar. when the lid is on. Put 1/2" of Muratic acid
in the jar and put the lid with the tailpiece dangling from it on the peanut
butter jar. You do not want the part to touch the muratic acid. Although
to be honest some people put the parts in the muratic acid too, but just
for the 3 minutes like the etchant solution. I do not recommend this way
though. I even take a small piece of masking tape to put over the hole
where the wire comes out. The fumes form this stuff are bad I kid you not.
As mentioned in the previous post you need to nuetralize the Muratic acid
so it quits working. When using either of these processes again the piece
must not have any body oild or grease on it. When the piece comes out under
either method it will look splotchy. That will come off when you clean
it and it should be an evenly dull color if there was no grease or oil
on it.
Bill and anyone else who wants to comment,
: While I'm waiting for my paint to arrive I thought I'd bring this
up as I haven't seen anything written about it.
: I was all set to use aircraft remover to strip the poly off my '75
Tele when my guitar tech suggested I take it to a
furniture refinishing shop and let them dip it.Since everyone who writes
about stripping poly says it's a really
nasty job,I decided to check it out.
: I found a guy who'd never done a guitar before,but the refinned furniture
in his shop looked great.I explained
about the poly and the aircraft stripper,and he said he'd try to strip
it by hand first,but would probably end up
dipping it.I wanted to watch him do it,but he said they only "dip"
once or twice a week,so I left it.I asked him to
dip the minimum amount of time and check it often.
: I should mention that it's an alder body.A few days later I picked
it up and it was perfectly stripped with no
problems at all.For $40 I didn't have to hassle with scraping and nasty
chemicals,so I was real happy.
: Are there downsides to having a guitar body dipped?
: One I can think of is if there was pencil dating in the neck pocket
it would probably get erased.:
David, I spoke to Mark N. yesterday evening. He is stripping a Squire
body and had it dipped at a furniture
stripper. He says after days of sitting in the stripper the finish
wasn't even soft. The Squires use the dreaded
"Asian Poly" that to most accounts is bullet proof.
I found a great stripper for Poly that's not so hard to find. Ace Hardware
Latex Stripper - its amazing. 2 times and its all off.
Jack
a few days [weeks?] ago, we were discussing homemade spray booths & how to work "in the basement" with 1.) pro results and 2.) without stinking up the house. i thought i'd share my setup with you all. as i write this, my office is directly above my "booth" where i just did a "first clearcoat" on a strat....and i can't smell a thing!
here's what i did....simple & easy: my shop is below ground level,
and we have an entranceway thorugh
what are called "bilko
doors"...take a look
see the fan? here's
a closeup shot. it's a broan attic vent fan, 14" wide, designed to
fit between attic rafters. trust me, it moves serious air! the door was
an old "3 window over" style; i removed 2 of the upper glass panes and
fitted the hole with 3/4 plywood. see the "door" hanging down? it's a foam
lined box that swings up & seals the fan hole when not in use so as
to keep the shop warm in the winter. it's a must! [i'm in new jersey]
the fan is mounted via it's flange mounts on the other side of the
plywood. shall we step inside for a better view?
here's the fan up close.these fans have internal thermostats so as to turn on when your attic is hot. i bypassed it & added a line cord so i can "plug & play". notice the silicone gunked all around the junction of the fan to the plywood? this allows for maximum airflow without any flowback. as i said, this thing moves some air! see the mesh over the fan? that doesn't come with the fan.....i added 1/2" mesh chicken wire to keep fingers et. al. out of the moving parts.
this fan isn't "explosion proof" and it really ought to be.....but if you stay about 2 feet away from it, you're safe. i suppose if you sprayed nitro/propane right into the motor, that could be bad. don't do it. an explosion proof fan of this size would run over $1000...not an option for a basement vent. as for the issue of errant overspray, etc., the answer is so simple, i'm embarrassed to show you! some well placed bed sheets act as a focusing device, and i can't believe how well this all works! i simply hang them to protect my benches & it's spray time! easy to put up, easy to take down.
did i say spray time? take a gander at this beautiful, surf green strat. bill's paint sprays so nicely, it's a pleasure!...actually fun! this was an "ice blue" fender [mex] strat with "asian poly" on it [forget removing that stuff....more about that in another post], so this is a "paint over". looks great already & isn't even nearly done! anyway, i hope this gives you all some ideas. the fan was about $50 [as best as i recall] and you can buy it at any decent electrical supply house.
happy spraying!! Contributed by Mark Norwine 12/23/00
IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE. I USE ACYRLIC LAQUER FROM MY FRIENDLY AUTO REFINISHING
SUPPLY
HOUSE. FIRST WET SAND WITH ABOUT 1000/1500 TO GET RETENTION. WORK ON
BASICALLY ONE
AREA OR ONE OR TWO COLORS. PUT A DUST COAT OVER THAT TO SEAL THEM OR
SO THE COLORS
WON'T BLEED INTO THE NEXT (UNLESS YOU WANT IT TO OR ARE DOING A FADE).
BE CAREFUL HOW
MUCH YOU REDUCE YOUR COLORS. TOO MUCH THINNER AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PUT
A SEVERAL
COATS ON. TOO THICK, AND YOU'LL HAVE "STRINGS" PULLING AWAY FROM YOUR
LAST STROKE.
MAIN THING, DON'T GET TOO BUZZED, COLOR INSIDE THE LINES AND HAVE FUN.
IF YOU HAVE ANY
QUESTIONS OR PROBLEMS, FEEL FREE TO BUZZ ME. I'M GOONA POST SOME OF
MY JUNK WITH
BILL. BEST REGARDS, DOUG P.S. IT'S TOO MUCH FUN.
I have a tele neck that looks to have been "painted or something". There
are areas in the grain that are dark
green. Also there are dark green lines on either side of the frets.
I would like to remove all the finish down to the
bare wood and bleach the discoloration out of the wood. I've heard
clorine bleaches work. is that true? also,
what must be done afterward to remove any bleach residue.
On bare wood the bleach will remove stains, but maybe not all. Go slowly
and use the bleach sparingly, you will
want to apply it several times. Remember that bleach is like water,
so dont soak everthing. After you are
comfortble that enough of the green is gone, sand again, then use a
sealer before applying the lacquer coat.
The Fender neck amber will help cover any areas that may exhibit stain
residue. With regard to new frets, you
can do a combination. If you are going to refret, apply sealer and
one or two coats of nitro and then smooth
sand before installing frets. After the frets are in, apply the finish
coats of tinted lacquer to complete the
process. When the neck has cured, polish the frets to remove the paint.
Jeff Jewit recommends vinegar to neutralize bleach. If you don't it
is possible that the residue will bleach the
new color.
If it's hardrock eastern maple, you might be in for a tough battle...
I've used chlorine bleach before, it works so-so. If you really want to
use chlorine bleach, go to a swimming pool supply store and ask for a gallon
of liquid
chlorine (unless they stock a smaller quantity than that, which I doubt)
Store bought Clorox is 5% sodium hypochlorite solution. The swimming pool
store stuff will be 15% solution. Even this I've found isn't very effective
against the dark streaks in maple. The best results I get are using 'Klean-Strip'
2-part wood bleach. This stuff works! But you really need to practice caution
with either route you go.. BUT, even the Klean-Strip wouldn't remove the
dark streaks out of my eastern maple. I just had to learn to live with
them, a character enhancer...
I've used it to great success in bleaching walnut especially, and veneers,
and mahagony and the like.
There, it works great to lighten the color enough so it's not really
dark, but those dark maple streaks are some
of the toughest things I've run into to remove. Do a small spot before
you go hog wild and see how effective it's
really going to be first...
On the mahogany; seal first with lacquer then fill with a dark filler
(use oil stain to color the filler). After 10 minutes wipe off the excess
with mineral spirits and sand when dry (the sealing with lacquer first
will prevent the stain in the filler from dying the wood darker. Removing
the excess with mineral sprits will not affect the protective lacquer seal
coat). A sand and sealer applied next may give a more glass like final
finish but may not be needed if the filling looks good. I would then spray
the burst (medium brown anilne is my faviorite). Use a dark solution with
very little lacquer (one part lacquer to ten parts disolved dye for example).
When the burst is correct; clear coat. An amber rather than yellow dye
makes a better looking burst to my eye.
I'm working on an aerosol burst kit now using medium brown for both
the dark brown and the red zone (the red
comes from the red component of the brown) and amber. For the very
edges I use black as you note. Forget
the hand applied bursting and use your air brush for all. You can wipe
the amber though if you like.
: Aarrgghh! Mamma didn't TELL me that this would happen! I now have a gorgeous new metallic teal paintjob on my Mexican Tele, but wet sanding caused the wood to swell where water dripped into the screwholes, and I have 1" long cracks along the grain. I suspect that the cracks will pretty well seal themselves once the wood dries and shrinks back (I will leave the guitar unassembled until that happens), but how can I prevent this in the future? Surely this has happened to others?
It's happened to me. Now I let the screw holes fill with filler, sealer and lacquer. I clear them after the wet sanding has been completed. You can clear them sometimes with a tooth pick and if not use a drill bit about 3/4 the size of the hole. Rotate the bit backwards with you fingers. That way you will not pull the lacquer up with the bit.
As we are learning occasionally the wet sanding of a finish will cause swelling and likewise cracking of the finish around predrilled holes. I "solved" the problem primarily through in action. That is; I allow the holes to clog with sawdust, filler and lacquer. I do the wet sanding and then open the holes. The downside is that unless care is used reopening the holes can lift the lacquer around the hole. The best way I've found to reopen the holes is to either punch the hole partially open with a toothpick or to drill them open first with a drill about half the size of the hole. After partially opening the hole I use a drill bit the size of the hole to reopen it. However, if you spin the drill clockwise the lacquer can catch and be lifted upward causing a chip. To avoid this I hold the bit between my fingers and rotate it COUNTER CLOCKWISE. Once a bevel is made the drill can be rotated clockwise to finish cleaning out the hole. Now, there has to be a better way. Any ideas?
A luthier I know plugs the holes with balsa wood and seals the end with a little superglue (before finishing). when the work is done he clears the holes w/ a dremel. because the balsa is so soft and brittle he says it dissentigrates. I personally use a light oil (sparingly)as the lubrication as wood doesn't pull the oil in like it does water.
Well, I may have found a solution. I went out into the garage this morning
and started looking through the assorted "fix-it" stuff I've collected.
It appears that Plumbers Putty (the kind that goes under the trim ring
of a disposal and never gets hard) may be the answer. I wiped a little
into the holes of the Tele I'm building and it didn't fill the hole but
rather it blocked the opening enough to prevent water from entering the
hole.
It is soft enough that I can punch the hole back open with a toothpick.
Modeling clay may work as well. I'll let you know how it works after the
wet sanding is done.
: Can someone please tell me how I can check to see if a clear finish on a Hofner bass is nitrocellulose lacquer or polyester? Thanks. There are a couple of spots where the body took a hit and the "clearcoat" separated from the brown sunburst beneath. I wonder if the whole clearcoat will peel off.
Find a hidden spot and wipe the finish with a rag dampened with lacquer
thinner. If it melts it is lacquer. If not it is poly. Newer instruments
(especially those not built in Asia) are usually poly.
Any of you who live in the UK who have tried to buy Nitro Lacquer will realize that it is very, very difficult. Regular finish suppiers don't stock it at all and look at you in confusion if you ask for it and the regular Luthiers Suppiers ie. David Dyke carry it but won't ship it due to some monsterous surcharge for Hazardous products. Cellulose lacquer in spray cans IS available from car places, the Simonize stuff seems to be OK, it smells right and seems to set up hard and fast. If you live in London I just found Foxell & James (57 Farringdon Road, London EC1M 3JB 020 7405 0152) who do have it. The stuff I got was their No4 Cellulose Wood Spray Lacquer which was available in quantities from 1 Litre upwards. When I got it, it was packed in an unmarked (other than Hazardous product markings and handwritten description label) container which suggests it comes in in larger volumes and they supply to order. It was £5.72 +VAT for 1 Litre which seemed pretty good for the UK. They also sell Morells brand spray lacquer in cans which may be higher quality than the auto stuff.
In addition David Dykes kindly told me that they carried the Morells
brand and gave me the phone number of several other dealers on Morells
list.
S&S home Supplies 16 - 18 Hole Lane 020 8201 0281
James Jackson 020 7237 2862
Dipen Wood finishes 020 8 961 9369
Also some of the larger builders supplies (Ryland paints etc.) sell something called Bar Top Lacquer in large quantities (5 Litres plus) which may or may not be right (anyone know about this stuff?).
On an unrelated note for the Brian May fans out there! "Rustins 2 Pack Plastic Coating", the red special stuff is still available all over the place! [end original post]
I notice now that I left off Craft - Supplies who have Behlen lacquer
in their catalogue and don't mention any shipping restrictions but I would
guess that they're bound by the same ones as everyone else. As well they've
recently gone over to Courier shipping (Business Express) which may have
some effect. They are at Tel: 01298 85636
web: http://www.craft-supplies.co.uk
Incidentally for the more politically incorrect of you out there, while
they aren't listed in the catalogue Crafts-Supplies does have Brazilian
Rosewood slotted/radiused blanks if you enquire.
There I've let the cat out of the bag!!!
I could have sworn that I posted this here at the time. Perhaps it rolled off in one of the updates. Also re. the Simonize spray stuff, it comes in bothe Acrilic and Celulose versions which are very clearly marked so make sure you get the right stuff. Also theres a trad artists/crafts supplier on the Kings Road (almost at Worlds End) that has some interesting stuff like every kind of shellac you ever imagined and about 20 different shades of Bronze powder.
If you live in the uk like me you`l know that it sooooo hard to find nitro laquer.Well i`ve solved the problem,take a trip to you local `halfords` store (peeps in the uk will know that name well, do you have it in the us? There is a holfords is basicly ever city or town)and buy some of the silver spray cans of car paint they have, the stuff for touch ups on car doors and stuff.They sell almost every colour you could want and they sell clear coat for over the top. it goes on fine but it does take a while to dry and harden properly, but anyway this should be a lot less difficult that finding a shop that sells proper nitro laquer.(especially in england).
Neil if you're looking for Nitro in spraycans the Simonize stuff is
available in Nitrocellulose and available from most Auto-parts stores also
see my post further down and in the archive for other sources. Here's another
new one, 4D modelshop ( 151 City Road London EC1V 1JH Tel:020 7253 1996)
will make up custom cans of spray nitro mixed to your colour specifications.
It's expensive (about £10 per can) but if you don't have spray gear
and want to spray a solid colour with clear over it one can would do the
trick. Also they have the most amazing custom Dry Transfer (from artwork
or computer file) and brass/Nickel etching for people looking to produce
custom logo's. The dry transfer service is actually VERY affordable (£20
for one colour A4 £30 for A3), you'll get A LOT (probally years of
small production/single builder) of headstock logos on an A4 or especially
A3 sheet.
Ric necks sometimes develop fingerboard separations due to the use of the dual truss rods. On a vintage ric, simply tightening the truss rods to straighten or lower the action is NOT the way to do it; I've seen old rics pop their fingerboards several times because of this. The proper way to adjust the truss rod is to clamp the neck into the position you want, THEN tighten the truss rods. Alternatively, you can lay the guitar neck across your lap, with the body dangling in space, this will cause the neck to move and allow you to readjust the truss rods. I'd recommend having the neck inspected BEFORE you do any regluing or fretboard clamping, as the fretboard will most likely separate yet again if the truss rods are improperly adjusted.
Assuming that the truss rod problem is taken care of, I recommend the
use of tite-bond or hide glue to reglue the fretboard. What I have done
in the past is get ahold of a syringe with a thin needle,
load it up with the glue, then insert the needle into the space between
the fretboard and neck and inject into the space, moving the needle around
the space to get the glue into the crevices. Then, using a rubber-covered
adjustable clamp, put pressure on the joint and let dry overnight. The
expressed glue should be removed with a damp soft cloth to avoid scratching
the conversion varnish finish. Once dry, any lacquer separation that occurred
due to the fretboard pulling up can be touched up and resanded/polished
to cover the work area.
Test the area for tension by carefully retensioning only the normals
(non-octave) strings first; then, slowly retension the octave strings to
pitch (A440).Check the fretboard to see if it is holding.
Any signs of separation, stop tensioning and detune the guitar and
check to see where the separation is occurring.
The old ric necks on 12 strings probably should be given some tlc, since the tension from the octave strings often causes these necks to become overbowed, or experience neck heel cracks or neck heel - body joint separation and "pull away". I recommend using light gauge strings (.008s on the high octave "E", .040 or narrower gauge on the lower octave "E", GHS makes a roundwound set that fits this description) to lessen neck tension, particularly if you leave the guitar strung for a long period of time and play it a lot. If you use the guitar infrequently, you can use heavier gauge strings but I would recommend detuning them (at least to "D") when the guitar is not in use, and, checking the areas that I mentioned for signs of trouble. Ric made great necks, but never intended for these guitars to go on "living" 30+ years without developing problems.
(Steaming off a neck). As others have said, not a minor task. pretty much requires steem (not an absolute must but...) A version of the stew mac steamer can be made fairly easily. You'll need a cheap pot preferably one w/ a lid wich will lock on (or some kind of clamps to hold the lid on) drill the lid and install a hollow bolt (drill one out, or try to locate a long "banjo bolt", there are other possibilities like an auto tire valve stem w/ the core unscrewed) Then attach the tubing w' a hoseclamp, and the attach that to a very fine tube and or needle (basketball tube is a bit large IMO, a glue syringe needle would be better) some kind of handle is helpful (it does get very hot) If you have access to a cappachino machine, just hook the tubing to the steam tube. Anyways, now you pull the frets over the joint area, and drill small holes through the fret slots into the joint (at an angle) and inject steam until it comes out the seam (beware previous caution about too much moisture swelling/warping the project) those guitars usually use a simple straight sided block so it won't have many "directional issues". It doesn't take much glue to "hold" the neck.
Another option, (especially in your case due to the pending refin) is to rig a "pulling jig". You'll need to firmly clamp two stiff boards along the length of the body to the top, then using another stiff board across the heel and two large C clamps you can clamp the baords together (the one across the heel to the ones on the top) to push the neck up. You need a heat lamp and A LOT of patience. put some pressure on the clamps, and put it under the lamp wait till the pressure relaxes and put more pressure on the clamps. The neck will tend to come out unevenly (due to pressure on the end. with straight sides it's not a big deal, if it's more of a dovetail, then you have more rigging to do to get it out level (clamp body heel down, neck down near headstock, and use previous assembly to push body down and neck up at joint) This process may take days...But the heat is the key factor as I believe that glue is fairly water resistant.
Maybe consider laminating it without pulling the neck. if it's less
than perfect at the joint, use a dark border burst finish. (with a laminate
as thin as you'll need, it shouldn't be too hard to do pretty well w/ the
neck in place. Actually, I think you're gonna have as much trouble making/finding
a AAA laminate that thin).
There are two species called Honduran Mahogany. The first is the dark
mahogany Gibson used for the original SGs and L/Ps that we know and love.
It is the species mahoganni and very rare today. The second species is
swietenia and while called Honduran it is actually from Brazil and much
lighter. Most likely a new mahogany guitar would be built using the lighter
Brazilian species. A dark tinted grain filler on swietenia may give the
look you are after. Sand back after it has dried to remove the color from
the field of the wood. The "before" pic shows an unstained piece of each
species.
How would i paint a sparkle/glitter finish on my guitar, where do i get supplies, i want it to be green sparkle what are the steps for doing this, any help would be great.! thanks.
First I wouldn't reccomend nitrocellulose for this project. I'd use
a urethane like Dupont ChromaClear or House of Kolor UFC-1. They have a
higher solids content and don't shink over time as bad as nitro.
There are few options here. If you have the money to spend on an agitator
cup for your spray gun do it, other wise you'll have a cup full of clear
with all the sparkle settled on the bottom of the cup. You can throw a
couple marbles in and give the cup a shake from time to time.
If that's not an option poke some holes in the lid of a jar and sprinkle
it on just shot clear. One advantage to this method is if you do it over
a newspaper you can get the unstuck glitter back and not make a huge mess.
Sprayed glittler goes EVERYWHERE. Urethanes(not Minwax,etc.) are better
for this because thay stay sticky longer than laquer.
Other things to consider. Spray your base coat the same color as your
flake. Use a slow reducer and/or extra retarder on the flake coats so they
finish can flow out flat as possible, this will save you a lot of level
sanding later. Consider shooting a green candy over a silver flake base.
if you sand through and cut a silver flake no one will notice. Do it on
some colored flake and you'll have little silver specks showing.
After you're base color is done shoot/sprinkle 3-4 coats of flake and
follow with 2-3 coats of plain clear to bury it. I'd let this set in a
dry hot space with plenty of air movement for a couple of weeks to let
any shinkage occur THEN level sand w/400 wet and finish clearing as normal.
You can get glitter at most craft stores but don't buy the crap in
big 8 oz. jars. House of Kolor makes a lot of cool flakes, check out www.houseofkolor.com.
Good luck
