The DUG SCOOPS Archives - 1981

COMPILED from FISHER RIDGE SCOOPS. Note: During 1981 & part of 1982, prior to the creation of the Detroit Urban Grotto and the DUG Scoops newsletter, a newsletter was published called the Fisher Ridge Scoops. There was not really a Summary, but general info about recent and upcoming trips and other general info.

Fisher Ridge Scoops September 1981 #1

Now that the Fisher Ridge Survey is becoming more national in scope -as far as caver participation is concerned - I thought it would be a good idea to just send out 1 letter to everyone involved. It'll contain the latest survey progress, personality profiles and dig updates and should serve to better document the project. "Scoops" will be along the line of the "Crumps Newsletter"; published when time & material are abundant. I would appreciate any articles, suggestions, corrections you may have on this scandal sheet and all correspondence is "fair game" for publication unless otherwise specified.

Sept 12
J. Saunders, C. Hopper & P. Quick surveyed leads off of Fisher Ave. The 1st survey was in the wet canyon at DA-39, explored on a previous trip by Joe Saunders. It's a canyon w/ ankle deep water which splits. The left fork apparently becomes narrow, the right was surveyed to a large BD dome with no obvious leads. Next, they continued to the nice canyon lead at DA-35. This canyon passed under Raccoon Trail trending NW before turning South. About 650 ft were surveyed and another 1000 explored. A lower level continues westward (or SW) at the end of exploration but vertical gear may be required. Total survey was above 22OO'.

sept 20
K. Ortiz, D. Crowl & L. Bean. Survey of the side lead at MA-16 in the Raccoon Trail ("Happy Face Bypass") led to the dome complex explored by Chip beyond the Happy Face BD pile. Three distinct domes were explored and surveyed but no obvious leads were uncovered. A few digs and a FS hammer job were noted, However, the BD could be hiding a few leads since Chip's route to Happy Face was never found. Next the eastern side lead at MA-12 was surveyed to an overlook to a pit. This was the lead previously explored by Lario Yerino on the original survey of Raccoon Trail. It may be the upper Hilton from the western side. Dan actually remembered to look for a rigging point!! The ceiling channel at approx. MA-20 was explored. It is similiar to the lower crowl: ceiling slab digs alternate with 20 ft w x 4ft h passage. Two constrictions were dug open and a third waits for desperate days. It trends due west. Last, the connection between Raccoon Trail and the MA-35 lead was completed. Total - 1500' of survey.

sept 21
Progress at Sandbox is phenomenal. Larry & Jim Bean built a retaining wall on their return trip from Texas and were able to lower the hole by 5 ft. On Sept. 21 Larry, Keith & Dan used chemical magic to further lower the dig (now at -15 ft) to a crawlway in sandstone! It had bedrock walls and ceiling but Larry felt that further modification of the shaft was necessary before any progress should be attempted.

Chip Hopper has moved to Charlottesville, VA. His new address is: 71 Four Seasons Dr., Charlottesville. Lario Ilerino is in Delaware:

Chip's move to Va left us temporarily with out data processing. Keith has put his experience in the automated business world to use and has develooed a super-fast input program for the basic survey data. Once input, the data is transfered via modem to Dan's system and plotted. This should insure the rapid turn-around of data that we grew accustomed to with Chip's presence. The above two survey trips should be plotted and available by Tues. Sept. 29. Both Chip and Keith are working on Thrun's program for loop closure and it is hoped to start drawing map by mid October.

Oct. 10,11,12
Grand Junction with Keith 0. and Peter Q. Dan expressed an interest in surveying East from Cris Cross. There are still a few good leads going west from Fisher Ave. A two or three day weekend is available, but phone early since most vehicles are already packed.

Discussion was held on going leads in the cave to allay suspicions that the cave was "ending". The following is a partial list of "good" leads.

eastern Cris-Cross, Cris-Cross cut around- south Raccoon Trail- Grand Junction- West Room sump- Tin Can Alley- Hilton-Inn cralw- Eastern leads in Fisher Ave- Chicken Canyon- Roaring River- Northern Fisher Ave-

A small donation would be appreciated to defray postage.

Fisher Ridge Scoops October 1981 #2

The October 10 trip has pushed the system to 6.13 miles. Although no significant discoveries were found, the passages surveyed are still "going". Also, the "trunk" at the end of the DL survey (DeLux Trail) was further explored. The correct footage in DeLux Trail is 1500 ft, not 500 ft as reported in the previous Scoops.

In a recent project cave seminar, various suggestions were brought out that are relevant to the Fisher Ridge project. Numerous copies of the notes should be made as soon as possible to prevent accidental loss and updated maps should be sent out on a timely basis to maintain momentum in the project. This in mind I have started making 3 copies of the notes as soon as possible: the originals all go to Dan's, one copy stays in my office, one copy at my home and a copy will be sent to Chip for his data processing. Further copies will be sent to participants willing to pay the postage.

Work continues slowly on the loop closure program, without which we won't start drafting. Dan has reviewed a copy of the printout and feels that it would be easier to incorporate the loop closure routine into our existing program. Chip has determined that this will require about 300 lines of program. As soon as this procedure is incorporated in the program we will begin drafting the cave map.

Ropple's second entrance will soon be open and that will drastically reduce travel time to the Fisher Ridge leads in Ropple. Apparently the leads in Ropple only extend into the domes along the edge of finger ridge to the west of the main body of Fisher Ridge, but progress in that area could threaten western Fisher Ridge or even Ice Cave Ridge. It's for that reason that greatest concentration of effort in Fisher Ridge System will be along the western flank.

Borden (Ropple Cave coordinator) has expressed an interest in cooperation in the region. He feels that a board of directors should be formed to reach agreement on such matters as 1) connection 2) publication 3) sharing of data 4) field house sharing 5)degree of cooperation with CRF. This board would consist of an equal number of representatives from each project and a majority vote would be required to pass a motion. The advantage for the Fisher Ridge project would be access to the new Ropple fieldhouse (with running water & flush toilets). The disadvantages would be loss of control (somewhat) of publication, danger of leakage (since the maps would be more widely available), less intrigue and having to share the glory of the eventual connection (which of course we'll be the ones to find). The whole matter is still up to discussion.

As far as can be known, the old field house is still available for our use although it has no beds, refrigerator, water pump or stoves. I guess the only advantage is to have a roof over our heads. No arrangements have been made to take care of the electrcity yet. There is little incentive to fix the house up since there is always the danger of losing rights to use it. The best solution would be to find our own fieldhouse. The suggestion has been made that a nice fieldhouse be rented and "steep" dues be charged (approx. $5/month) to Fisher Ridge participants.

The 1000 ft./inch overlays are not available for the following trip reports. It was felt that it would be better to wait for the results of the Nov. 5 trip.

Oct. 10
Dan Crowl, Chip Hopper & Peter Quick surveyed the Cris-Cross cutaround at C-10. The eastern trending lead in the cut-around was explored for 800-900 ft as a narrow, wet, Crumpish canyon with some local enlargements. The canyon continues but surveying will be slow and with short shots. Survey was over 725 ft. Survey continued in South Cris-Cross from where Chip & Keith had previously stopped surveying. Cris-Cross continued NE at this point for about 200 ft to an ambiguous point where Chip was able to climb down into a 40 ft x 100 ft room terminated by a large BD slope. This BD slope corresponds in position to a sandstone entrance below the old barn at the edge of the field. The survey continued up to a higher level canyon which doubled back over Cris-Cross (Double- Cross). After 200 ft of survey in "sizable" passage, Dan found a way to climb down into the Cris- Cross. The Double Cross survey was tied into the Cris-Cross at B-58, just one station before where they had started. The computer plot shows that Double Cross Canyon corresponds in elevation to the Crowl Way. This may indicate that an entirely separate system waits to be discovered at that elevation in the limestone. Total survey on this trip was over 1200 ft.

Oct. 10
Keith Ortiz led first timer Brian Williams back to continue the survey in Delux Trail. They surveyed over 350 ft in Delux Trail to the climb-up into the "trunk" passage (Fluffy Sand Passage). At this point, Brian decided to snooze (after approx. 14 hours) so Keith scouted ahead in the trunk. The orientation originally described by Chip and Peter was found to be off 180 degrees. The trunk goes approx 150 ft to the South before splitting into two components, both silted and both digable. To the North, the trunk goes about 600 ft to a dome. In the dome a climb-up and canyon similiar to Baby Ruth was seen but not explored. This area should net at least 800 ft of easy trunk survey and could still contain some surprises. Brian's first cave trip lasted almost 19 hours.

Oct. 24
Joe Saunders, Mel Church & a novice checked out the mudfill and crawl at the 90 degree bend in Southern Fisher Avenue. Chip & Keith had both previously checked out the crawl and decided it would need digging. Joe apparently forgot this report and pushed ahead in a crawl over sharp rocks that didn't get lower that 18". The rocks were too much for the novice so Joe and Mel pushed ahead for 200 ft and broke into a bone-dry 10 ft x 10 ft trunk which went 1800 ft. to Double Easy Trunk. For reasons not clearly explained they didn't survey- something about a faulty plastic suunto. At the end, the trunk split into 3 segments: a crawl which will require trowl-work to continue, another crawl not well remembered and a canyon which Mel explored for 300 ft and reports it as still going strong. Next they went up the Hilton Inn and reported seeing a crawl somewhere near the climb-up to Giant Room. Mel climbed down the slot previously only seen by Larry Bean in North Fisher Ave and reports that it will continue after a 30 ft chimney. Lastly they surveyed a couple hundred feet in the eastern walking lead just north of the Rotunda. Total survey was under 500 ft.

Fisher Ridge Scoops November 1981 #3

Dan Crowl has incorporated the Thrun loop closure program in Chip's plotting program and we are now receiving line maps with simultaneous loop closure: all stations in a loop are slightly adjusted to achieve closure in all the survey loops. With this development, drafting of some of the surveys has now begun. Maps of the entrance section, Lower Crowlway, Foreaster Stream and Part of the Chris- Cross have been included with this Scoops.

There have been various discussions on how the final map should be drawn and it was agreed that the final map should be drawn up by one person. This will insure uniformity in style and symbols in the final map. Peter Quick has agreed to draw up the final cave map. However, in order to avoid problems with "interpretation of other caver's notes" it was agreed that individual surveys be drawn up by a participant of that survey, probably the note taker. These individual survey maps will be incorporated into the final map by Peter. They will also be published in Scoops as survey maps. As certain sections of the final map are "filled out" with survey maps, sectional maps of the cave will be published in Scoops. You may want to keep the survey maps since they may show more detail of underlying passages than the final map will allow.

After each survey trip, the original survey notes should be sent immediately to Dan Crawl. The data will be checked for clarity and completeness, input in the computer, checked for input errors and a closed plot of the survey at 50 ft/inch will be sent out to the participants in the survey. The caver drawing up the survey map will receive a computer printout which shows the survey data input, E-W / N-S coordinates of the station and depth of each station below the entrance.

The individual survey maps can be drawn directly on the computer plot since it comes out on quality drafting paper. Once finished, the survey map should be sent directly to Peter Quick for inclusion on the final map. If necessary, Peter can draw up the final map directly from the original survey notes.

The original survey notes are requested for input into the computer because at that time various copies are made of the notes. A separate copy must be sacrificed for input since hash totals are added to the notes. Copies are sent out to various persons working on the project. Also, Dan is setting up a file of all the original survey notes which will be made available to participants in the survey. There should be one place where good copies of all the data can be obtained. Note: clear copies should be made before sending any originals through the mail.

As mentioned above, hash totals are made of each column in the survey notes for input into the computer. This give a chance to compare total foresights to total backsights for a particular segment of survey. The numbers obtained do not indicate any useful parameter, but it has been noticed that the fs/bs difference for the azmith readings usually is small while there are usually large differences between "the sum of the foresights and the sum of the backsights" for the vertical angles. I'm not quite sure if this shows some effect of having negative numbers in the vertical readings or some problem with the clinos we're using. I have noticed an increase in >2 degrees differences in the vertical readings. It seems to me that the vertical readings can be much more accurate than the azmith readings.

The NSS News article finally appeared in the October issue. The article was mostly complete as it was sent in but the selection of photos to accompany the article was not the most representative. As an example, not a single photo of Fisher Avenue was selected. A more thorough selection of slides will be presented at the January MIG meeting along with a short talk about exploration in Fisher Ridge to date. Larry Bean is planning a photo trip on Dec. 5, 6, 7 and maybe we'll have some new slides to show for the meeting.

The Nov. 7 trip to Fisher Ridge was used to survey known passage. Joe and Dan surveyed the Double Easy trunk while Keith, Larry & Peter mopped up segments in Northern Fisher Avenue and in Fisher River. Including 700 ft picked up by switching from "Total Horizontal Survey" to "Taped Distance" (if the US Government can do it why can't we??), the cave now stands at a little more than 7 miles.

Nov. 7
P. Quick, Larry Bean, K. Ortiz - Survey of lower canyon at J-9 in N. Fisher Ave. This is the canyon where Larry took the photo of the column which appeared in the NSS News. Larry wanted the passage named after himself, thus: Lovely Larry's Lower Level Lead (or L-5). Approx. 300 ft were surveyed to a 50 ft drop. This drop plotted out to the top of a small dome encountered in the "E" Survey near the West Room. A bolt will be needed to safely rig this drop and to continue the survey. Next, they surveyed the lower component of N. Fisher Ave at J-20. It continued as a nice walkway for 350 ft to a point where flowstone & silt almost completely blocks the passage. A small stream enters from the North at this point thru an impassible crawl. Further progress will involve squeezing between the left wall & the flowstone where there is strong airflow. X-Section is as follows: A hammer & chisle can be used but dynamite is preferrable since no immediate opening up is in sight beyond the constriction. Afterward, another 97 ft were tacked on to the survey of the upper component of N. Fisher Ave. No easy continuation will be possible though the last station appears to be only 10-15 ft below an alluviated sink on the surface. Finally, the fisher River Survey was continued to the Grand Junction. An impressive 350 ft long trunk (7' h x 18'w) runs E-W at this Point. Western Grand Junction Passage (GJ) continues as a low water crawl. Dipping ceilings & silt banks will slow progress in surveying this continuation. Eastern GJ terminates in the GJ sump, an impressive 25 ft diameter, 4 ft deep pool. Survey continued upstream in an eastern trending stream passage (Stinky River) before a wicked stench & slime arossed out all enthusiasm.

Nov. 7
Joe Saunders & Dan Crowl. Continued the survey in Double Easy Trail from where JWS & assoc. stopped surveying during their Oct. 24 trip. After 350 ft of crawl on "Jagged Rocks" this passage breaks out into nice 8 ft high x 10 ft wide trunk passage. Much to Joe & Mel's credit this trunk segment yielded 1803 ft, just 3 ft over their original 1800 ft estimate. Unfortunately, the report was not encouraging for further progress in this area. Two trowl digs in crawlways were noted. The canyon at the end of the trunk was named "Double Hard" and went a couple hundred feet to a nicely decorated dome with no obvious side leads.

A separate section will be included in each copy of Scoops to list out the leads uncovered in the surveys described under ***trips***. Future issues of Scoops may reference back to the numbers used in this leads list. I'm not quite sure how to set the list up.

Fisher Ridge Scoops December 1981 #4

Missing this issue - to be added soon!