Interview with Jeph Loeb

About a year ago, new Superman editor, Eddie Berganza apparently decided that he was going to fire the team of writers who had worked together on the Superman comics for years. Rumors suggested that Berganza wanted to hire Mark Waid and Grant Morrison to do the job. Fans were incredibly excited about the changes on the title. Two of the biggest writers were taking over the title. The powers that be apparently scuttled that plan, and Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly were given the reins on the Superman titles. Loeb got his chance based on the strength of his one Superman mini, Superman for All Seasons. After reading the Superman titles, I can safely say that the powers that be made the right choice.

Loeb suddenly has a major track record. He's the current writer on Superman, Lionheart and The Witching Hour. He's also the publisher of Rob Liefeld's Awesome comics line. Before this, he created X-Man for Marvel comics, and he has a strong screenwriting history. He is the writer of Arnold Schwarzenegger's hit Commando.

Jeph Loeb may be the nicest man creating comics today. He responded to our request incredibly quickly, and he answered all of our silly questions. He has absolutely no axe to grind, and you can tell by talking to him how much he loves the comics and superhero industries. Despite what he said, he really did make Superman fun in his first month.

Senior Writer, John Gabrielle, our webmaster, Ben Grose, and I conducted the interview.

Ramsey

RR: Do you feel any pressure having both fans and critics expect you to come right in and make Superman fun again?

JL: I don't feel any pressure, but I have said in many interviews that I'm hoping the fans don't expect the books to "make Superman fun again" in one month. It takes time for a team to gel. In my case, my regular artist and pal, Ed McGuinness won't start for 3 months and while I'm really proud of the work in the first three issues, I've seen what Ed is doing and it's even more incredible than expected. But, my first three set the tone and have a great deal of fun and emotion. Will the fans respond? I hope so -- and I hope the retailers take the chance and up their orders so more fans get a chance to read the books.

JG: Without badmouthing the prior Super-team, what, in your opinion, did the Super-titles lack the most over the last few years?

JL: I can't bad mouth the previous teams because Dan and Karl and the gang have told some wonderful stories in the past years. I do want to focus on the core characters of Superman, Clark, Lois, Jimmy, Perry and Ma, Pa, and Lana. That may be a difference in the beginning.

RR: The initial reports about your Superman is that the stories will be told from the point of view of Lois Lane. First off, is that accurate? Second, if so, will that be the case for all the stories you're writing, or will the point of view shift from one character to the other?

JL: I don't know if it is from Lois' point of view as much as Lois will be narrating the stories. Sometimes she'll be talking about one thing and the action goes the other -- but it's intended to comment on each other. I became very comfortable with Lois' voice in Superman For All Seasons and so I'm really enjoying this. And yes, when the story warrants it, there will be other narrators -- but mostly it's Lois.

JG: Since a divorce between Lois and Clark is probably never going to happen, how can writers keep their relationship fresh?

JL: I've been married 13 years and don't need to get divorced to have a fresh and fun relationship with my wife. Joe Kelly is practically a newlywed, so he's got the "young man's" view (Kelly will kill me for saying this) of married life. Lois is very funny, very sharp and one of the few people who can tell Superman where to get off, and he will listen. There's a spark there -- that's always been there -- so, whether they were dating or married, it doesn't matter -- they can have fun. I see it as a combination of The Thin Man movies, Moonlighting and the current animated series (something for every generation). Great couples having great fun.

RR: Can Superman be better explained through a set of "human" eyes rather than his own?

JL: I don't know. Superman has a lot of "human" in him. DC asked me if I wanted to use Lois as a narrator and I think that affords me the chance to see how others look at Clark and Superman without a third person narrator or Superman himself narrating. I like Superman having a bit of mystique to him -- it adds to his power -- and I like Clark being more accessible -- it's is why Superman keeps the Clark Kent identity, IMO.

JG: IYHO, was the 1986 revamp of Superman necessary? If yes, what was the best thing to come out of it?

JL: Necessary? It got people talking and thinking about Superman again, so that's the best thing that came out of it. It affords the subsequent writers to tell stories from a new perspective and challenges them to find new ways to tell old stories.

RR: You've written the polar extremes as far as powers and personalities goes in Batman and Superman. Which is the harder character to write? Which character is more human in your mind?

JL: They are both very different men. Bruce is so self-absorbed, so wounded, that you have to feel for him and his pain. Clark, on the other hand, is real wish fulfillment -- you know, he can fly! -- so he has a very different attitude. I like them both for different reasons. I also think that for someone who is as closed off as Bruce is, to have him narrate his own book actually provides far more insight into his character than anything else; where as Clark is just out there, being who he is -- honestly -- and you almost don't need to hear what he's thinking -- he's doing it.

JG: Why is Superman not as popular as such other comics (i.e. Spawn or X-Men) even though he is the most recognizable?

JL: If I knew that I'd be a very successful publisher. I think it's wrong, but you can't dictate what the readers want. Spawn bores the hell out of me, and Superman thrills me to no end, so what do I know?

RR: What's your vision of what Superman is like: (These are the viewpoints of other creators.) force of nature, big blue boy scout, alien farmboy, or is it something else?

JL: I see him first as Clark. A young man who spent 16,17,18 years at home in Smallville, Kansas as a normal kid growing up with two extraordinary, loving and wise parents. His powers manifest themselves and he takes on that responsibility and adopts the Superman identity, not out of fear, but out of responsibility. Now, what I find interesting is that he went back to being Clark after Superman hit the scene. And once upon a time, that was so as a newspaper reporter he could keep up with the dangers around the globe.

Today, I like the idea that "Clark" is the place he goes to relax; the one, true fortress of solitude.

JG: What, if you have one, is your favorite version of Superman?

JL: Well, obviously, I like what I'm doing with him! But, seriously, I don't think it gets much better than the annimated series. Paul Dini and Bruce Timm just ROCK. End of story.

RR: What kind of challenges will you have him face?

JL: Big ones. Big in the sense of emotion -- how he feels about Lois, about his parents, about his life -- and about the superhero community in general. Big in the sense that the villains aren't just coming to kill him or rob a bank-- hopefully, we'll see stories where they have an agenda that may not be clear right away -- that will rock Superman's world, our world -- stuff like that. That's something I learned from Batman's villians. Sometimes it might take months to understand why one thing leads to another -- but it should pay off -- big time.

RR: Lex Luthor considered Superman to be his great rival. With his money, his subtle movements and his mind, why wouldn't he be better as a recurring Batman villain?

JL: Actually, the most vulnerable place in Superman's powers is that while he is very powerful, he is also big hearted. He can't see the evil that Luthor sees so clearly -- there's just too much "Kansas" in the way. I think Batman understands Luthor down to his socks and, quite frankly, I think Luthor knows that and stays away. It's much more fun, from Luthor's point of view, to destroy the American Icon (and he's an ALIEN!) than it is to destroy someone who works in the shadows like himself.

JG: Why is Superman's rouge gallery not that good? Or is it good and just not used properly?

JL: There are some great characters -- Luthor, Brainiac, Parasite, Mongul, Myxzptlk and the list goes on. Good stories bring out the best in good villains and hopefully that's what we're all going to be doing along with some very cool visuals.

RR: You've had some experience handling both mega powered characters in X-Man and an iconic boy scout in Captain America. Did that help you at all in creating Superman? Is there any similarity between either character and Superman?

JL: Um... I didn't create Superman. But, if you are asking what influences led me to handle the character the way I do, it has more to do with the first two movies and the animated series. Yes, there is something about X-Man's unbelievable power -- and I Ieft that book before I could really address the joy of that, and as to Cap, he's just so... accessible. He has to be, he's wearing a flag! Superman is about larger, almost too large, ideals for anyone to really hold on to. I remember when I first started, I told Eddie Berganza (Superman's Group Editor), that I could see Cap standing on the courthouse steps in New York, signing autographs, but that Superman, without being rude, would be up, up and away before anyone could get near him. But, and it is an important distinction, Clark would gladly take a group of 4th graders up to the Daily Planet to show them how the newspaper works. Clark is the one who is accessible. Neither Steve Rogers or Nate Grey have that duality to them.

RR: In the preface to Kingdom Come, Elliot S. Maggin mentions a twelve or thirteen year old kid named Jeph who came up with an idea about the Guardians of the Universe putting an idea in Superman's head, that maybe Superman's efforts to save everyone were stopping ordinary good humans from growing on their own. What would have happened in the story had you gotten to write it?

JL: I actually DID write it (that's where Elliot got the inspiration from) and while I'm very amused by Elliot's public apology, Elliot is one of my heroes and he really got me into the business by showing me that writing comics was a noble profession -- and fun too. And, what Elliot DIDN'T say in that preface is that my story degenerated into the ending of Spider-Man #100 (Oh, the truth is ugly.) and I learned, very early on, that borrowing ideas from other comics -- while it is often done -- isn't as good as looking at novels, movies and television for inspiration.

RR: Is this a story you'd write with the modern Superman?

JL: Probably not. I now see him as a really shining guide post for human history, and at the time, I think the Guardians were commenting on just how powerful he had become. Clark is now so much more of his character, that the story wouldn't work as well today. And besides, Elliot really told a marvelous story with those concepts.

RR: Is Kingdom Come similar to how you would have handled the story?

JL: Not at all. What Alex and Mark did stands alone and holds up quite well, don't you think?

JG: Why can't artists remember that Superman's cape is not indestructible? (Sorry, I now sound very fanboyish but this just pisses me off.)

JL: Well... I kind of like that it doesn't tear. And I wouldn't pin it on artists -- at least not how I work -- if the cape is going to rip, McGuinness and I would discuss that first. I just don't think that Superman ought to walking around like Ragman. And I don't need to know how it works -- that part really gets me going, the need to explain everything -- he's Superman! I still believe that Ma made his costume out of those blankets, no matter what anybody says. (Ah, look out -- they're coming to my house with torches!)

BG: How do you feel about what is being done with the next Superman movie? How would you do a Superman movie if you were in charge?

JL: I'd do what I always try and do and set out to tell the best story I could. I think there are things in Superman For All Seasons that would make a wonderful movie. Also, I happen to think that Dick Donner's version (Superman and Superman II) are really, really terrific.

JG: Since Nic Cage was, in a lot of peoples' minds, a poor choice for Superman, who would you choose?

JL: I don't have an opinion on that. Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney all made fine Batmans -- even though "the fans" screamed it should be someone else. A good script makes a good movie. And will attract the right talent. What's hard for the comic book fan to realize is that we make up a very, very small fraction of the movie going audience. Maybe Nic Cage is exactly right for that part -- but, to a fan, he doesn't look like Curt Swan's or Dan Jurgens' version of the hero, so he or she rags on it. Why? I'm just hoping for a new Superman movie. Period.

JG: If you could have any one of Supes' powers what would it be?

JL: Hands down, FLY. Wow, total wish fulfillment. To be up there with no strings. Great stuff.

RR: You had some pretty strong comments about the creators of the "Swipe of the Week" website, which, if I remember right, attacked a friend of yours, Rob Liefeld. What did they say that outraged you?

JL: First off, it wasn't about Rob. They've hit up anyone they can find from Alex Ross to John Byrne and for WHAT? I don't want to start a whole forum on this, but put simply, "swiping" as it's refered to is done all day long by everyone. How many times has a phrase from a movie become part of everyday conversation "Yeah, Baby, Yeah." Artists and writers use images that inspire them. Yawn. Why is that a story?

What really irks me is that we are in a business where we all know the sales aren't what they could be and these guys want to throw rocks at the creators. It's like making fun of someone who has cancer -- get a new hobby! I'd like to find a very vocal MAJORITY of comic fans (those who come to the Cons for example) who tell people why they LIKE comics and why comics are good reading. But, tearing down the thing you love so you can feel better about yourself -- ah, forget it.

RR: What are misconceptions that people have about Rob Liefeld?

JL: Rob's a controversial guy -- and has been for some time. He's also one of my best friends, so I'll keep this simple. When Rob exploded on the scene and -- to this day, he still has the 2nd best selling comic book in X-Force #1 to his credit -- he brought with him an enthusiasm and spark that so few of us have about the business. Ten years later -- or whatever it is -- he still has the same enthusiasm and I think that's remarkable. Again, we are in a very trying time -- instead of bashing Rob -- or anyone for that matter -- try and be positive. We all need it.

Now, I made a comment about Spawn earlier and that was about how I feel about the CHARACTER. It has nothing to do with Todd or making it personal. And it says a lot more about ME in that I don't "get" one of the most popular characters in the business than it does about Spawn.

RR: (I'm not asking this question to accuse, just to clarify. So please don't take it as anything but a chance to put aside a possible criticism of a character you're working on.) You're the writer of a new title called Lionheart, which has a cover of a half naked woman who strikes a bad girl pose. Why should readers who have passed on Lady Death or Witchblade take a look at this book, when the cover suggests a similar theme?

JL: Short answer: two words: Ian Churchill. Longer answer: How many comic books are there out there with big buff men in costumes? Does the same hold true? Ian Churchill created a fun, dazzling woman who is much more super-hero orientated than Lady Death or Witchblade or even The Coven. How about reading it and then asking the question?

RR: For some reason, characters like Wonder Woman, who really is about as naked as anyone out there get taken seriously by comics fans, if not the general public. Characters like Lady Death, Vampirella, and Witchblade very often get critiqued as nothing but T&A. Is the difference in the attitude and outlook of the character?

JL: Sure. DC is very protective of WW and she doesn't sell T & A anymore than Superman does. Those other characters have a sexuality to them that many readers enjoy. That's why I LIKE about comics -- the variety of choices open to the readers. It makes reading interesting.

RR: Do the costumes of the above characters make it harder to take the characters seriously?

JL: No. It is all in how they are handled. The women in the X-Men have been just as curvacious as the next girl, and people take them very seriously. And, just so we're clear, I think that the people who actually READ those comics see much more in those characters than just T & A. Look how long they've survived in a world where things are cancelled left and right. They have a reader base who likes the books -- and I'm pleased to say that many of them are women.

RR: How hard is it to write a lead woman character and get the motivations right?

JL: I like writing women. I think they can say things in a more witty and often, biting way, then men can -- and since so many of our heroes are men, it gives them a chance to be "the other voice" in the story.

RR: Batman: Dark Victory has you working with your long time collaborator, Tim Sale. Is it a special treat to get to work with him again?

JL: And again and again and again. He's the best.

JG: Which actor was the best Batman? Or who would you like to see portray Batman?

JL: See above. A good script is what interests me.

BG: Will you do another Superman project with Tim Sale in the near future?

JL: Well, in the near future we've got a year of Batman ahead of us. But, nothing is off the table after that.

RR: What's the general theme of Batman: Dark Victory?

JL: After the destruction of Harvey Dent, Batman is essentially cut off from real human friendship and it will take the magic of a ten year old boy in Dick Grayson to open him up again.

RR: In the preview edition of Batman: Dark Victory, you said that Batman's pain is what strikes you most about the character. How does his pain relate to ours?

JL: I think we all have a longing to be loved and accepted. Batman had that robbed from him by the murder of his parents and he's trying to find a way back -- but he'll never get there as long as he's Batman. We, on the other hand, can feel his pain, but also change our lives for the better.

RR: Recently, we have seen an obsessed Batman, who has nothing in life but fighting evil in Gotham. Grant Morrison has Batman's mind work so well that he can handle just about anything thrown at him. What do you think Batman is like? Is he: Morrison's Bat God, a terrorist, the hero most like us, or is everyone a bit right?

JL: A little bit of all of it. Remember, the stories in Long Halloween and Dark Victory take place very early on in his career. We get to see the making of the Detective and the mistakes that come with that.

JG: Why was "Batman and Robin" so bad?

JL: Don't take this the wrong way, but why even ask that question? Look through this interview. You've asked what's wrong with Superman's previous teams, his rogues gallery, his new movie -- I'm just not interested in thinking in those terms. I'm not trying to be Little Mary Sunshine, but we ought to be looking at what's exciting and new about comics and the stuff that is developed from that. Otherwise, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic.

RR: You co-created X-Man. Has the title, since your departure, progressed in the direction you intended it to go?

JL: Not at all. But, for whatever my contribution, I'm proud that the character has lived on for the past five years and maybe will continue to do so. I also got a toy out of it, so that was pretty cool.

RR: Quentin Tarantino said that you could tell a lot about a person by finding out whether he's an Elvis man or a Beatles man. No one likes them equally. Which are you?

JL: Um... both actually. No offense to Mr. Tarantino. They're very different musical tastes and I like them both. Okay, maybe a bit more on the Beatles side.

JG: Who is your favorite musical artist?

JL: Sinatra. Done.

RR: What genre of books/ comics/ movies/ TV shows do you enjoy reading/ watching?

JL: I try to keep up with a lot of stuff. In comics, Astro City, Savage Dragon -- what's going on with Batman right now, particularly George Rucka's stuff -- I'm a big fan of the talent. I've seen previews of Joe Casey and Steve Rude's X-Men: Children of the Atom -- wonderful. I generally read biographies, there is new one about Ali that I'm really into. Movies -- all different kinds -- I like the big action and I like the small art house. TV -- wow, I don't have as much time as I'd like -- I watch cartoons -- Loony Tunes, Saturday morning with my kids and the WB -- Batman Beyond is pretty great -- Law and Order, Seinfeld, The Simpsons sometimes Ally McBeal, basically, I'm a pop culture guy.

RR: Do you miss westerns?

JL: Very much. Great genre. First script I ever wrote in film school was a western.

JG:Who was the better hitter Joe D. or Teddy Baseball? BTW I am a Red Sox fan so be careful with your answer.

JL: I went to high school outside of Boston and my screenwriting partner and best friend are both Sox fans. Williams was probably the better hitter, but Dimaggio was a better, I don't know, inspiration to the game?

RR: You wrote one of Arnold's more successful movies, Commando. Any desire to do more screenwriting?

JL: I never stopped, except for the two years running the day to day at Awesome. I'm writing a movie right now with Joe Maduriera for Nickelodeon (Blast!) and I just turned in a draft for a new version of Barbarella.

RR: Is screenwriting the beast that the writers of Up Close and Personal describe?

JL: It's a lot of work and I think it is difficult for some people to deal with turning in your best stuff and having to be told that someone else is going to rewrite you. It's one of the joys of comic book writing, nine times out of ten, what's on that page is what you wrote -- good or bad.

RR: Back to comics: are there any creators you would just love to work with?

JL: I've been very lucky to work with increibly talented people. But, if I had to name names. Um... Adam Kubert. Neal Adams. Steranko. Carlos Pacheco. Alex Ross. Paul Dini. Bruce Timm. Gotta stop or we'll be here all night...

JG: If you had carte blache on any character, who would it be? What would you do?

JL: The FF. Hands down. I'd do what I like to do, tell big and small stories that ring and wring with emotion.

JG: What work do you think is your best?

JL: That's hard to say. I'd like to think I get better each time out, but they all can't go over the wall. I have a great fondness for Cable #20 "An Hour of Last Things", The Long Halloween #9 "Father's Day" and Superman For All Seasons #1. All for different reasons, mostly personal. Kaboom was a real delight because my son got such a kick out of it.

RR: Mark Waid said that Wonder Woman for him was the hardest character to write because she is such a paradox. Which character do you think would be the hardest to write?

JL: I don't know. Probably a character that doesn't particularly interest me. Spawn, for example -- I don't think I'd do a very good job because I don't really understand the character or what the book is about and I've read 50 or so issues of Spawn. But, it's very successful, so it's not a dump on the character, it's more about what I like and what I can do best.

JG: How would you solve the Hawkman problem?

JL: Get a good team and write and draw good stories. If you're asking about continuity, I'm the wrong guy.

RR: Anything else on the horizon for Jeph Loeb?

JL: I'm really proud of the work Chris Bachallo and I are doing on The Witching Hour. It's my first Vertigo project and working with Chris has really challenged me to do stuff I haven't done in comics. And what he draws -- wow.

I still keep a close eye on what's happening at Awesome. Ian Churchill and Keron Grant are among the best pencillers working today and I get to write for them (Coven, Lionheart, and Kaboom).

Actually, after a long period of not being on the stands (most of 1999), I have three books coming out in October, November and December and then after January, it is just Batman and Superman on a monthly basis -- does it get any better than that? So, I'm sure to get into trouble somewhere...

Redoubt is Copyright © 1999-2000, Ramsey Rusef. All articles contained inside are Copyright by their original authors. All characters and comic books reviewed in Redoubt are Copyright and Trademarked by their respective owners.